A couple of comments from a supporter of Liberate Scotland got me thinking about what criteria might be applied to identify a 'genuine' pro-independence party, organisation, group, or individual.
One could debate this for ever but look for anyone who says...
Amongst our manifesto are such diverse elements as: fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency, an almost fanatical devotion to Independence, and nice blue flags.
A Party which unequivocally embraces the "new thinking" and refuses to dilute its language in order to curry favour with the media, the metropolitan centre or that drogue-like, indigenous grouplet referred to as soft-No, while standing four-square with UDI as a legitimate and wholly necessary means of Scottish liberation, would tick many/all 'genuine' boxes for me. A straight-talking leadership which acknowledges the necessity of attracting a much younger audience to its programme of liberation, would be a huge plus.
"Ask the 'pro-independence' parties to list the five powers they want Holyrood to take control over from Westminster."
Any party that didn't answer ALL POWERS is NOT an independence party,
As is exemplified over the past 11 years the scum nonce party is NOT an independence party irrespective of what its constitution says, its constitution also says it is a member led democratic party which it has also ditched
There are still too many members and former members who are more attached to the party than they are to Scottish Independence , get over your sorrows and realise the PARTY has been taken over by scum and is no longer the entity you loved and admired
When someone or something shows you who they are FFS believe them
Quote: 'It is clear that for some people at least self identifying as a pro independence party is not enough. But what more is required... ..for example we might insist.....candidates must have affirmed their adherence to the principle of the sovereignty of Scotland's people.' ( P Bell)
The first item and only item for me would be ..Patriotism.
What is a Patriot?
A patriot is someone who loves and is devoted to their country and who actively supports and defends its interests...( ref:AI overview)
'Being a Patriot is a word that addresses identity'. ...'When it comes to identity you're getting to something that touches people deeply.' (ref: Sokolowski -Mermam Webster)
So why did the Scots fight England?
De facto independence for Scotland was established in 1314 following a defeat of the foreign english invaders at Bannockburn. These wars were caused by the attempt of the English kings to seize territory by claiming sovereignty over Scotland...while the Scots fought to keep both english rule and authority out of Scotland.
The english fought for GREED. The Scots fought for FREEDOM from a hostile foreign nation.
Nothing much has changed as the english government are still greedily robbing Scotland while the Scots are still struggling to keep english rule ( UK parliament) and authority ( 'you cannot have a referendum'.) out of Scotland.
You don't need a checklist . You only need to see a political party that has a positive attitude and a deep sense of national pride and loyalty. The fact that many Scots are not bothering to vote is a clue that we don't have a party who gives the Scots any confidence that they truly represent Scotland and will fight tooth and nail for our freedom.
Descriptions of patriotism by the UK government are 'nationalism' or even 'terrorism' .
I describe myself as a Scottish Patriot who supports Scotland's right to be a free nation.
That's all I need to see on a checklist..the rest follows.
I can only list one item just to get the independence ball rolling and that is a real constitution by the people for the people, perhaps very similar to the online constitution which was created by a group of people and is open to ammendment by the people.
Certainly, not a constitution formulated by our government as has already been suggested by itself.
I like this idea very much ... but difficult to achieve without a lot of collateral damage? Another approach, which I think needs proper attention is to ask the 'pro-independence' parties to list the five powers they want Holyrood to take control over from Westminster. Short of a referendum in the next Parliament which looks very unlikely, pro-indy parties would have to demonstrate their authenticity / credentials by including these in their manifesto. This political debate about further powers would I, suggest lead to: a)more powers for the Scottish Parliament or b) demonstrate how Westminster still effectively controls Scotland with the powers that matter and therefore fuels the independence cause.
As a starter here are my five : 1. Control over BBC in Scotland; 2. Requirement that all senior roles in Scottish institutions are reserved for people with demonstrable understanding of Scotland (e.g. residence more than 15 years, educated in Scottish School etc); 3. New powers to ensure marketing of Scottish products are clearly labelled as such; 4. transfer of power over corporation tax/inheritance tax and last; and by no means least: 5. transfer of power of all our natural resources (incl. oil and gas).
"Another approach, which I think needs proper attention is to ask the 'pro-independence' parties to list the five powers they want Holyrood to take control over from Westminster."
That is a good question to ask.
However, I would suggest that the answer expected of a true believer in Scottish statehood should be something along the lines of
"We're not asking Westminster for anything" but perhaps using more colourful language.
Given the predicament that we find ourselves in I think that as soon as parties/candidates start listing what they wish Westminster to 'give us' they are lost and of no positive value to Scotland's cause.
One could debate this for ever but look for anyone who says...
Amongst our manifesto are such diverse elements as: fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency, an almost fanatical devotion to Independence, and nice blue flags.
A Party which unequivocally embraces the "new thinking" and refuses to dilute its language in order to curry favour with the media, the metropolitan centre or that drogue-like, indigenous grouplet referred to as soft-No, while standing four-square with UDI as a legitimate and wholly necessary means of Scottish liberation, would tick many/all 'genuine' boxes for me. A straight-talking leadership which acknowledges the necessity of attracting a much younger audience to its programme of liberation, would be a huge plus.
"Ask the 'pro-independence' parties to list the five powers they want Holyrood to take control over from Westminster."
Any party that didn't answer ALL POWERS is NOT an independence party,
As is exemplified over the past 11 years the scum nonce party is NOT an independence party irrespective of what its constitution says, its constitution also says it is a member led democratic party which it has also ditched
There are still too many members and former members who are more attached to the party than they are to Scottish Independence , get over your sorrows and realise the PARTY has been taken over by scum and is no longer the entity you loved and admired
When someone or something shows you who they are FFS believe them
You made me think today Peter!
Quote: 'It is clear that for some people at least self identifying as a pro independence party is not enough. But what more is required... ..for example we might insist.....candidates must have affirmed their adherence to the principle of the sovereignty of Scotland's people.' ( P Bell)
The first item and only item for me would be ..Patriotism.
What is a Patriot?
A patriot is someone who loves and is devoted to their country and who actively supports and defends its interests...( ref:AI overview)
'Being a Patriot is a word that addresses identity'. ...'When it comes to identity you're getting to something that touches people deeply.' (ref: Sokolowski -Mermam Webster)
So why did the Scots fight England?
De facto independence for Scotland was established in 1314 following a defeat of the foreign english invaders at Bannockburn. These wars were caused by the attempt of the English kings to seize territory by claiming sovereignty over Scotland...while the Scots fought to keep both english rule and authority out of Scotland.
The english fought for GREED. The Scots fought for FREEDOM from a hostile foreign nation.
Nothing much has changed as the english government are still greedily robbing Scotland while the Scots are still struggling to keep english rule ( UK parliament) and authority ( 'you cannot have a referendum'.) out of Scotland.
You don't need a checklist . You only need to see a political party that has a positive attitude and a deep sense of national pride and loyalty. The fact that many Scots are not bothering to vote is a clue that we don't have a party who gives the Scots any confidence that they truly represent Scotland and will fight tooth and nail for our freedom.
Descriptions of patriotism by the UK government are 'nationalism' or even 'terrorism' .
I describe myself as a Scottish Patriot who supports Scotland's right to be a free nation.
That's all I need to see on a checklist..the rest follows.
For OUR Scotland and her weans!
I can only list one item just to get the independence ball rolling and that is a real constitution by the people for the people, perhaps very similar to the online constitution which was created by a group of people and is open to ammendment by the people.
Certainly, not a constitution formulated by our government as has already been suggested by itself.
I like this idea very much ... but difficult to achieve without a lot of collateral damage? Another approach, which I think needs proper attention is to ask the 'pro-independence' parties to list the five powers they want Holyrood to take control over from Westminster. Short of a referendum in the next Parliament which looks very unlikely, pro-indy parties would have to demonstrate their authenticity / credentials by including these in their manifesto. This political debate about further powers would I, suggest lead to: a)more powers for the Scottish Parliament or b) demonstrate how Westminster still effectively controls Scotland with the powers that matter and therefore fuels the independence cause.
As a starter here are my five : 1. Control over BBC in Scotland; 2. Requirement that all senior roles in Scottish institutions are reserved for people with demonstrable understanding of Scotland (e.g. residence more than 15 years, educated in Scottish School etc); 3. New powers to ensure marketing of Scottish products are clearly labelled as such; 4. transfer of power over corporation tax/inheritance tax and last; and by no means least: 5. transfer of power of all our natural resources (incl. oil and gas).
"Another approach, which I think needs proper attention is to ask the 'pro-independence' parties to list the five powers they want Holyrood to take control over from Westminster."
That is a good question to ask.
However, I would suggest that the answer expected of a true believer in Scottish statehood should be something along the lines of
"We're not asking Westminster for anything" but perhaps using more colourful language.
Given the predicament that we find ourselves in I think that as soon as parties/candidates start listing what they wish Westminster to 'give us' they are lost and of no positive value to Scotland's cause.